Curse

Martin Alvito · Jun 09, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countess Marie

There was no risk... if the tank was holding the gear what risk was there?

Gear farming was not introduced on the first day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Countess Marie

Death magic damage is insane, all the nuker had to do was drop 1 person. Kind of like in Tombs pve, too, because the way the aggro balled you'd already have rotting flesh on everyone, then the first guy would drop (the purpose of having a nuker), and you'd put down well of suffering and spam putrid. Plus after the first mob you'd also have minions attacking. I can't fathom how one more nuker would be better than (or even equal to) that.

If you had the right skills and the tank and nukers knew what they were doing, you could knocklock groups for 15 seconds and have them all dead by the time the second MS exhausted. I want to say that the bar was something along the lines of | Glyph of Energy | Meteor Shower| Fireball | Incendiary Bonds | Rodgort's Invocation | SQ | Fire Attune | Sig |. Basically, one nuker uncorked the first Shower while the other got the burning going and pumped damage. Then that nuker started the second Shower about 7 seconds in (without 40/40 up) while the other one pumped damage. SQ was optional; it enabled you to be fully recharged on shorter walks but introduced the risk of time consuming mop-up. I think Searing Heat was the alternative there, but I could be remembering wrong. Fire Attunement was a necessary evil; without it, you'd have to go to batteries and it would take too long to be ready for the next fight.

Why kill only one monster, then wait around for -10 degen and Putrid to clean house, when you can get them all in one fell swoop?

The catch, of course, was that the tank had to be good enough to not die when balling the critters into nearby range. That took some skill and a focused bar.

Laraja · Jun 09, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Not to change the subject, but since we're on this subject.

What are the advantages of Sabway over Discord? I'm looking at the builds on wiki and there's not that much difference. Yes, one hero is running curses. I ask because I've been using a Discord team with henchmen to vanquish Cantha for a title and so far it's been a breeze (except for Raisu Palace, I think it was... that ele boss raped us. I need to remember to bring pain inverter).

Sorry for the noob question. Sorry if OT.

Martin Alvito · Jun 09, 2010, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Long story short, Sabway is more physically oriented. It's attractive for physical characters, because they deal big damage (which Sabway lacks) and have synergy with the physical damage buffs Sabway runs. The team can stand up to mobs for a long time, but requires you to supply damage and micro certain hexes.

Discordway is a fast, spammable spike. It is generally more attractive for caster professions that can make the most of Assassin's Promise and the ability to repeatedly spike single targets with PvE skills. You can run Asuran Scan on a physical character with Discordway, but you're giving away a lot of the build's efficacy if you're not running an Assassin's Promise caller. It's a little less effective at staying alive than Sabway, which means that you have to maximize damage output and kill quickly to stay upright against tough mobs.

Yes, it's OT, so let's minimize this discussion and not hijack.

garethporlest18 · Jun 10, 2010, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

knitting is boring, tennis most definitely is not, unless your not the sporty type, who can't appreciate anything skillfull unless it's on a computer screen........

But yes MM are very powerful, I wouldn't say there overpowered but having an MM hero is extremely hand in a lot of PvE

Oh I appreciate the skill involved, but that doesn't mean I will find it fun, still bores me to tears much like soccer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

yea, i was like tennis? really? golf would probably be the obvious choice, but i'm guessing hes a golf enthusiast and so doesn't want to insult his own sport.

And yeah that's why I said tennis.

The reason MM can beat out pretty much every other build PvE wise and why there should also be a spot for one on most HM teams is: When you have 5-10 extra bodies taking and dishing out damage, that beats 1 high damaging nuker. Sure you can nuke some things and kill them before they kill you in HM, but not everything. Where as a MM in a place with bodies can dominate no matter what they face (unless it's another death magic enemy I suppose, but even then). I mean, even if the minions didn't do damage or couldn't damage from dying they'd still be mega useful because when enemies focus on the 10 minions, the rest of your team can dominate that enemy and then 1-2 more minions pop up.

Throw in a SoS hero with that and it's like having up to 15-16 more bodies to spare instead of your 4, 6 or 8. And if you bring more than one MM and you have an area with a lot of enemies like shown in that screeny by snaek earlier, well then you have up to 30+ bodies on top of your 8 and you will steam roll pretty much everything guaranteed. Even more so if you bring pain inverter and watch as the enemies kill themselves when they aoe your minions. Bringing a nuker or 3 nukers doesn't give as much of a guarantee. Course..if all 3 necro's die..well then yeah those nukers would probably be a better bet..but eeh how often will that happens with 30 minions out haha.

Xiaquin · Jun 10, 2010, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Hmm, I didn't learn about the goodness of Death Magic until late into Prophecies. It was probably around 2006 and I was a poor elementalist still on the first playthrough. I wanted to explore and do quests, so I joined a PUG in the Southern Shiverpeaks, headed out toward far outposts like Granite Citadel that held mysteries to me. This was at a time when I thought the area was certain death, and so I looked upon other players for help to get anywhere. The MM had level 18s and I was trying to understand what the group was talking about. It went something like this:

Guy 1: (before we set out) You got lvl 18s?
MM: Ya, lol. Only noobz don't have them.
Guy1: lol yeah, 1 dmg. (must have been with a noob MM?)
Me: (??? level 18 only minions that will damage enemies here. mental note)

From then I pretty much felt MMs were godly and as good to have as a Monk in the party. That was also back when lots of people ran bone fiends.

Zebideedee · Jun 11, 2010, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

The fact that a you in your vast experience have never met a capable human necromancer is somewhat troubling and a dire indication of the level of general PUGs in this late stage of the games life

Vast lol, no, just my personal xp of mm's, Olias is mine, I don't play much with humans outside guildies etc. the ones I have encountered been quite pathetic. And like I said, about JQ, maybe I just never came across one who was a hardcore mm.

So much venom, why?

Quote:

That you advocate human MM's using Death Nova instead of maintaining or producing a stronger, more powerful minion army is quite frankly frighteningly stupid.

Your US?

fireflyry · Jun 11, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Soul Reaping.

Yummy.